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Talk:List of composers

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Is this page needed?

I honestly fail to see the purpose of this page. It's redundant when it comes to the composers who have more than one work with Kirby, that already have their own pages, and the composers with only one work only have a short paragraph for each that don't really have any info. If the info is simply "this composer worked for this single Kirby game", it's not really useful.

The only thing I find useful in this page is the table with the composer breakdown for the games, but I wouldn't have it just for the sake of the sake of this page existing. It could be reused whenever we make a Music page or something, if we do end up making it.

But regardless, I see little no reason for this page to exist. I will likely mark it for deleting unless someone can explain why this page should exist. - Gigi (talkedits) 10:49, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

I know why you want to delete this page, but not only did I put a lot of hard work into it, but many of the composers also have backgrounds, such as 2 composers for Kirby Tilt 'N' Tumble, who have worked for Nintendo with non-Kirby games, and Tomoya Tomita, who left Good-Feel. It's better to improve this page rather than deleting it. Many of the composers I tried to find backstories, but couldn't, so I decided to add in as much information as possible, including information I could find. We can still work on this. Please just give this page I put a lot of work into a chance. Altendo 12:26, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I understand you put work into this page, but that alone is not a valid argument to go against the deletion. I have a work in progress page titled "All official Kirby content in Portuguese" that I am putting lots of work into, but when I do create it it will be a sub-page of my userpage because it's not really on par with this wiki's content, but I personally wanted to compile that information myself. And I considered that when I opened this discussion, hence why I created this discussion before. But we have the policies in place that should be followed, and that includes when making pages, namely the article creation policy. There are three questions asked there, and two of which I have problems with the answers when it comes to this page:
Is the subject important enough to warrant its own article?: This is my main question here. Are the composers who only worked on a single Kirby game important enough to justify this page existing? I personally believe that no, and that instead they should be covered in the Nintendo Wiki, and we can link their articles from there in this wiki.
Is the subject something that is not covered at sufficient length in an article of a different title?: The other side of it is the content of this page that is already covered in the individual composer pages. There is really nothing new about them in this page, making a good part of it redundant.
So, again, I will repeat my question, what is the purpose of this page? And a follow up question, would this mean that we would want to have pages such as "List of directors", "List of programmers", "List of designers" etc? - Gigi (talkedits) 13:07, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I fundamentally like the idea of having a page for all the minor composers who don't have enough info to justify having their own pages, but I agree that this page isn't substantial enough to justify its creation. If I might add, it's also a bit unusual that it was created without much input from the community; it would've been better to ask first rather than going right through with publishing it. The chart with the list of composers can be reused elsewhere, and with some expansion the smaller sub-sections for the lesser-known composers could make up their own page, but the rest of it is a bit unnecessary to me when we already have detailed pages for most of the prominent composers. StarPunch (talk) 17:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I don't mind in theory having a page for minor composers, I just wonder what would "minor composers" mean. In other words, what composers would get pages, and what composers would be listed as "minor composers". For example, right now Megumi and Yuuta as listed as "smaller" composers, and I completely disagree with that category, since both composed for big Kirby games and are HAL staff, and likely will continue to get credited in games. Similarly, "Senior" and "Veteran" fundamentally mean the same thing, no idea why they are different categories in this page.
I agree also that I found this page odd to be made without any talk with the community. It feels disconnected from the wiki, although at the same time I feel the idea has merit, I just wonder how to exactly work this out.
At the end, I'm still waiting for an explanation of the purpose of this page as of right now. - Gigi (talkedits) 15:08, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
I don't know if this discussion is still alive, if so, I think that having this page is useful. First of all, regarding the "Is the subject important enough to warrant its own article?" question, I don't think that the music in Kirby is a small thing, so having a page, or in general, a place where we could see all of the people that have composed for Kirby is something beneficial. Is better to have a place were one could see all of the composers than having none.
Now, I get that while wiping all "small composers" this page would be very small, and in that case maybe this place could be replaced with a "Composers" Category, but that isn't the case, those still are people that composed on Kirby games and it should be preserved somewhere. If articles for each "small composer" are created in the Nintendo Wiki, still in what part of WiKirby would those pages be linked? If I'm not wrong, a "Category: Composers" can't link the pages of the other wikis, just the ones from here, and thus it wouldn't list all of the composers that have worked on the Kirby series. So in that case the best place to placed those Nintendo Wiki links is in a list page like this one. The other method that I can see for that route could be creating a very general "Staff" page and the paste all of this page under the "Composers" section, but I don't know if that would be the ideal choice.
About the "Is the subject something that is not covered at sufficient length in an article of a different title?" question, yes, we have more detailed pages for some composers, and we could paste them on a Category instead of this list, but that would still be missing the more smaller composers that doesn't have pages, and I don't think that there is enough info to create pages of them here. So an option to support replacing this page with a "Category: Composers" could be creating a page listing all smaller composers like you said, and putting it in the Category. But if we have a list of smaller composers, why wouldn't we have one of non-smaller composers? So in that case we would have two composers listings, but I think that is better having one than two.
So in conclusion, I think that having a page listing the composers is important because the Music is one of the defining aspects of Kirby, and thus a listing of every person that have contributed to it is ideal.
Now, it is true that this page isn't perfect, so in the case that it would be preserved, I think that making this changes could be beneficial:
  1. Creating Nintendo Wiki page for every minor composers, and linking them here.
  2. Changing "Senior" to "Main". I think that the difference between the "Senior" and "Veteran" composers is that while the Veteran are people that are defining composers in general that have some marks in the game industry, but not so much in Kirby (Ikegami and Sakai have worked in various Kirby games and in other games, like how Sakai composed for Mother 3, but their role in the Kirby series isn't so big as Ishikawa and Ando), the Senior ones are the main composers of Kirby, the primary options and the faces of Kirby music (like Ishikawa and Ando). So I think that those two categories should still be differentiated, but also that "Main" is a better word instead of "Senior". Those categories are differentiated of the Minor ones because the Minor composers just haven't worked so much in the gaming industry like Ikegami and Sakai nor have a bit staple in Kirby like Ishikawa and Ando.
  3. Moving Yuuta to the Main/Senior category. I agree with Gigi about Yuuta being more important than a Minor composer. Maybe Megumi should be moved to Veteran too.
While I prefer that this page is preserved by the reasons that I said above, in the case where this page is deleted, I would recommend some options to have the best preservation possible:
  1. Creating a "Composers" Category and putting everyone there with the "Composers by game" table, but that would also mean creating pages for the minor ones (unless categories can link pages of Nintendo Wiki).
  2. Creating a general "Staff" page and importing all of this page to a "Composers" section.
And, about creating Lists of directors, programmers and designers, I think that yes, we should, by the same reasons of why I think this page should keep existing: Those are defining aspects of the Kirby series, and pages listing all the people that helped in them in one place is ideal, and also better than having categories (as lists can have informative text). -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 16:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm skeptical about the Nintendo Wiki idea. First, when linking to other wikis, it's usually as "this wiki has additional/more comprehensive info about that so check it out if you want to", while just linking to NW with nothing else puts in question if the link is needed, since we have nothing to write about it. If some sort of paragraph would be written, then it'd probably would be more or less the same to what theoretically we could write on NW, making the link redundant. Also, in any moment NW editors' can change their policies regarding notability, so I wouldn't entirely rely on that. Just some of my thoughts on this. Superbound (talk) 17:12, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Superbound; of all places, a list of Kirby composers is most notable on this wiki. I like the idea of a "List of staff" article (renamed from this page if and when other positions are covered). While the table is useful (but I'm unsure where to place it), most 1~2 sentence summaries in sections under "Smaller composers" are unimportant or redundant, although the table could cover some of it in a "Notes" column. ⁠–⁠Wiz (talk · edits) 22:20, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
Well, this discussion hasn't been followed anymore, so by seeing Superbound and Vipz comments, I would like to list some of the routes that we could take regarding this page:
  1. Not deleting it, expanding the info of the Minor Composers (be on their sections, or in the table as Vipz suggested), and making some of the maintenance I mentioned earlier (Changing "Senior" to "Main" and Moving Yuuta to the Main/Senior category). (This would also mean making Lists of Directors, Programmers, Designers, etc.)
  2. Not deleting it, making pages for the Minor Composers in Nintendo Wiki and linking them here, and making some of the maintenance I mentioned earlier. (This option have the possible problem that the NW editors could change their policies, and that the links could be redundant, as Superbound said)
  3. Deleting it, making a "Composers: Category", and creating pages for the every Minor Composer. (I think that this option would be a bit redundant, as a List could still fulfill the same job, while having minor descriptions of every Composer)
  4. Deleting it, making a "List of Staff" page, and moving all of this info there. (If this option is taken, it should be after the other positions are covered, as Vipz said. I think that doing that would basically mean making Lists for the other staff positions before merging everything, though that could just be in a Sandbox)
Sincerely, I think that the first option is the superior one, because I'm a separatist someone searching for the Composers does not necessarily need to be searching for any other Staff position, and vice-versa. And because it is more cleaner than the second one. If the first option is not taken because mergists defeat us in numbers having all Staff together is preferred by most people, or by the low info of Minor Composers, or because all the info here would be on each Composer page, or any other reason, I would prefer the fourth option instead because it is a lot more cleaner as the third one. And because is also more cleaner than the second one. What do you think? -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 23:55, 6 October 2021 (UTC)


I haven't chimed on my opinion here in a while, but after reading all the discussion, I am still not convinced we need a page like this. I have nothing against the page itself, I just thought it was redundant. The thing is, the page right now lists all composers that composed only for a single game, with at best a couple sentences about them, most not related to Kirby even, which isn't really needed. For me, the ideal solution is to delete this page, and instead make a "Music" page that talks about the music of each game separately, mentioning the composers as needed. Composers who have at least three works (that includes albums, hence Yuuta Ogasawara having a page) get pages for them, otherwise we really don't know enough about them and their work. Said "Music" page can have the composer table from this page.

About staff pages, I am unsure about them, because I don't like the idea of having pages like this one, with multiple subsections that only say "this person worked in this game, not much is know about them". Kirby games often have dozens of designers, programmers, level designers, etc, and deciding which ones to list would be arbitrary, unless we only listed directors/leads, or those that at least have appeared in interviews. But I feel that would be a discussion for elsewhere. - Gigi (talkedits) 13:00, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Said "Music" page could overlap with Jukebox, so I'm not sure. If we can't keep this article, I would probably suggest Altendo to move it to their user subpage, or merge it somewhere (preferably Category:Music, given its high visibility). ⁠–⁠Wiz (talk · edits) 01:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
I like that Gigi idea of the "Music" page. It would cover every composer at the end, mayor or minor, which is what I feel that should be preserved the most. It is true that most of the people in the credits of the games can't be given a big description in the wiki, so describing specifically who did what in each game section of said "Music" page would fix that. I think that at the start of that page, a "This article is for general music in the Kirby series. For the mode in the games in which the player can hear music, see Jukebox" could be placed, thus evading a big overlap between the Music and Jukebox pages. -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 13:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure if I explained my suggestion well. I am not suggesting a Music page that lists every single track of the series, but rather a page that individually talks about the music of each game in general. So things such as KDL introducing certain iconic tracks, KCC being mostly remixes from other games and using a unique soundfont, KEY being music made for a non-Kirby game and using "soft" instruments, etc etc. Nothing like Jukebox, closer to a page like HUD. Unless we wanted a list every single track for every game somewhere, since Jukebox doesn't include every game and sometimes not even every single list. But we could do things such as "Kirby's Blowout Blast/music", making them subpages. But, again, that wasn't my idea here. - Gigi (talkedits) 18:26, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I know that this isn't the main point of this talk page section, but now that you mention it, I would like music pages of each game. For games that does not have a Jukebox, like Blowout Blast as you mentioned, it would be very beneficial (though the Music navboxes could probably do that instead, although they aren't exactly the same as list pages). I just wanted to throw my opinion on that idea, and that would probably be material for a proposal. -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 18:45, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Making a general page for music seems like a good option. ---PinkYoshiFan 12:42, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Bump ---PinkYoshiFan 18:36, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Bump 2 ---PinkYoshiFan 21:49, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Since I'm new to the discussion, I'll briefly give my thoughts on the above points. I think this page is unnecessary in terms of its current content, and also don't foresee any significant changes to what we could add or tweak about it to make it worth having. I respect and admire the work that went into this page, and think that this information should be used somewhere in some form, since HAL is a large part of Kirby and the music ESPECIALLY plays a role in how each game feels and is experienced. This is tangential, but I kind of like the idea of having two segments to the Jukebox page, where games without a built-in music player get a header at the bottom where their tracks are listed (with a warning that they're arbitrarily numbered and conjecturally named) so that all tracks can be on the same page. (Barring that idea, we could just make a page for tracks without Jukebox or Music Player inclusion, and then link to Jukebox, but I think that's a bit clunkier and harder for people to find what they're looking for.)

And then, on to what I was actually supposed to talk about, lol. The difference between the quantitative works of the HAL staff and the qualitative is hard to pin down, especially when it comes to what we cover. This page is full of quantitative things, like who worked on what, which is great but ultimately not substantial enough for a page. What Gigi suggests above with a Music page is more qualitative observations: game feel, music composition style, thematic choices and recurring melodies and motifs. I think this page falls flat (pun intended) not because it has bad information, but because its scope is limited by the fact that it has to list quantitative information only. A Music page would allow us to explore concepts with these composers that gives merit and worth for their inclusion even when a composer worked very little on Kirby as a whole. We can talk about Sakai's work in Mother 3 on a Music page in a more meaningful way, because we can draw similarities between the music in a descriptive way that provides new information to the wiki in a context where it feels cohesive and intentionally placed.

In other words, this information is great, but inherently limited by the style of page it's on. A different kind of page, such as a Music page, allows this information to be used to greater effect with greater purpose, rather than being a grocery list. (A grocery list that took time and effort to gather, write and format, I don't want to sound harsh.) So I'm for deleting it as long as we have plans to reuse it elsewhere, because information about composers can be important and useful if placed correctly.LeoUnlimited (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Bump. Considering this has been going on for over five months now, we should probably just put it to a semiformal vote and get it over with. ---PinkYoshiFan 19:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't really think there's too much more to be said, here. I'm going to give this one more week and then delete the page and archive this talk page. If anyone has objections, please let them be known here. --Samwell (talk) 16:46, 11 February 2022 (UTC)