WiKirby talk:Site merge negotiations

This is where we will discuss all of the matters thus far presented relating to the 2 wikis merge. As of this writing, I realize I need to cover more ground. But discussions may begin at any time. To keep the page orderly, please create a section for each issue.Axiomist (talk) 00:33, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

Staff

The users Crystal lucario, EmptyStar, Ville10 and Max2 are all inactive admins. Gamefreak75 (Talk)

Ok, so 4 new staff members would come onboard, or am I missing any others? Is there any chance of splitting the ranks? I'm unsure of how you guys defined the positions, but originally I meant for WiKirby's Bureaucrats to mean people that can access the server to add extensions, submit tickets reporting technical issues, and fix any tech problems. However that may need adjustment. Adam and I don't see ourselves as above Vellidragon or any other admin. Just different responsibilities really. Although admittedly, I source all of the debugging and error issues to him. :p One issue our host has been trying to solve is random IP blocks. It seems opening 20+ tabs of WiKirby triggers the server to ban people thinking it's a spam/vandal attack. When this happens, we have to get people's IP and submit a ticket to get them unblocked. Just so you all know what to do if that happens.Axiomist (talk) 01:41, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

Article Importation

Due to the differences in quality, formatting and article layout standards, as well as differences in templates, quite a lot of which don't even exist at the Wikia (the personalisation templates come to mind in particular), it currently does not seem very reasonable to simply import the articles from Kirby Wikia. Complete or near-complete rewrites of the majority of articles would likely be required in order for them to fit the standards established on WiKirby, so it would not really be any faster than making said articles from scratch; all it would do is confuse people why different standards seem to apply to those articles if they stumble upon them before they are adjusted, and perhaps lead to the creation of more articles that do not follow the actual standards, resulting in more work that could have been avoided. Therefore, I believe building articles from the bottom up, keeping standards in mind, would be the best way to handle this.--Vellidragon 09:07, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

Not sure of the extent of the issue, but I've seen complaints and acknowledgment of an issue of direct copy/paste jobs from Kirby's Rainbow Resort's Kirbypedia on Kirby Wikia.

I would like you all to know that this has been resolved and no articles are copied from them. All KRBAY episode articles are written by myself alone, along with a few others. I would like to think importing is the smarter way to go around this, because that kinda kills the merge to not import our articles and rather start from scratch. Most of our own edits would be lost if we did so. Of course, when imported we are not going to leave them as is and bring them up to WiKirby's standards. I do not see why it such a problem to change templates and the different layouts. Gamefreak75 (Talk)

There are more problems with many articles than templates and basic layout, mainly pertaining to general writing style as well as speculation in articles, which appears to be more readily accepted at the Wikia than it is here. Furthermore, bullet point lists are used for information that would be grouped in a table or template at WiKirby, images are often not properly integrated into articles, etc. My point is that the cleanup work for many articles would hardly take less effort than remaking them from scratch, and importing an article only to rewrite it (or rewriting it to import it) doesn't appear to make much sense.--Vellidragon 10:11, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

I'd imagine we'd have to add a category to imported material even before making repairs. Some templates and wiki mark up might not carry over exactly. I've never done it before, but I do think Blue Ninja Koopa has. So he'd have to be consulted on the procedure. I'm awaiting word on what the licenses will require of us and any safeguards we can take. But since this is one of the points in which we need expert advice, I was hoping to save discussion on it for later. Anyone have any opinions on any of the other sections?Axiomist (talk) 18:38, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

Would it be possible to merge the articles the different wiki articles like regular same wiki articles are so no editors would be lost from the histories? It's Turtwig A! My talk or wiki edits 18:45, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

As far as I understand it, yes, if we use the import/export tools, the edit histories and corresponding edit counts would carry over as well. Which would help make it a true wiki merge. What I'm not sure of is, what happens if say UserA signs up here as UserB. And I'm hoping to find a way to address Vellidragon's concern, so that we can have a notice template or category informing anyone that the article may need adjustment. It'd be a big job either way we go about it, importing or rebuilding, but I pmed Adam to help us get a plan in place. So while we wait, the most important thing is to make progress on every other point in the proposal. Axiomist (talk) 20:18, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

OK, so here's a practical example of how it's possible to do a page import from another wiki; here's the history for a template I imported from Wikipedia. I followed these steps to do the import. It only works for a single page, so it's quite labour intensive, but does allow you to sepcify how the usernames should be attributed. This allows us to make it clear that these are users at Wikipedia, thereby indirectly crediting their work. It doesn't rely on the user registering an account here at WiKirby, so avoids the problem Axiomist mentioned above.

o this is one of the options we could use. But the import process is relatively flexible, so there are a number of ways we could do this depending on what seems most practical and gives us the level of detail we need. Adam 07:35, 14 October 2010 (CDT)

That would do nothing to preserve the reported editcount of the user if they sign up here, though - they'd essentially have two separate editcounts - and old contributions would be linked to their old account, when it'd make sense to link it to their account here if they have one. It's good for users that don't move over here, though. - J 14:23, 6 November 2010 (CDT)

No, but editing the database can. Someone with FTP access can use some SQL code to import edit counts. Moydow 19:38, 6 November 2010 (CDT)

I don't know a lot of PHP, but this code in SpecialEditcount_body.php seems to indicate edit counts are just the edits added up, rather numbers actually stored in the database.

$res = $dbr->select(
    array( 'user', 'revision', 'page' ),
    array( 'page_namespace', 'COUNT(*) as count' ),
    array(
        'user_id' => $uid,
        'rev_user = user_id',
        'rev_page = page_id'
    ),
    $fname,
    array( 'GROUP BY' => 'page_namespace' )
);

- J 20:14, 6 November 2010 (CDT)

Name

What would be the name of the new wiki if the merge goes through? Would it be WiKirby, Kirby Wiki, or some new name? It's Turtwig A! My talk or wiki edits 18:41, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

I'm honestly expecting we'd still be WiKirby, as that's our URL, logo, and how everyone knows us. The main difference is that the Kirby Wikia guys will be here, Their staff will join our staff, their editors will join our editors. One change I was thinking about doing, in honor of the merge was adding a second color Kirby (of their choosing) to the banner to represent the team work. Axiomist (talk) 18:50, 13 October 2010 (CDT)

I wouldn't mind keeping it as WiKirby to be honest. Gamefreak75 (Talk)

I think as a name, WiKirby is preferable. It's already established as the site's "identity" (URL, logo etc as Axiomist mentioned), plus the name's gimmicky (in a good way) and I think has more character than just the "___ Wiki" formula. I feel like a lot of the wiki's mood and personality is conveyed by our logo's tagline; "WiKirby. It's a wiki. About Kirby." ;) Adam 07:35, 14 October 2010 (CDT)

Sig Images

I thought I had written this, but apparently I didn't.... If you want a suggestion, in the MarioWiki we use this template to regulate the size of the sig. It is really useful. --Tucayo 16:08, 18 October 2010 (CDT)

I promise to look into that asap... SnakeBoss14's sig looks like a great way to implement some new standard, imo. Axiomist (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2010 (CDT)

OK

This all looks good and set. I'll have more free time this weekend so I'll be able to do work then, but now I'd like to say that there are actually only four active admins (bureaucrats) at the Kirby Wikia: Me, EmptyStar, Starman, and Gamefreak. This Wiki's templates (infoboxes, etc.) are far better than ours, so we won't need to import any unless there are templates that need to be here (ex. one for KEY transformations), which can be remodeled. BNK ^[E|T|C] 17:38, 21 October 2010 (CDT)

Cool beans, Not that I want to derank 2 people, but can any 2 fill the admin position to balance the staff roll? As I said, admins have all of the access bureaucrats have here, save the server, but I think that would be best kept limited to Adam and myself. I haven't gotten around to making a KEY transformation infobox, so we can use the Wikia one, but I do have an idea for it, which you guys can help out on. I was thinking to get a snippet of a KEY fabric image and use it in a repeating div class to make it look like it's from Epic Yarn, the dashed border would have a stitched look to it. And if it works, it'd be awesome! Axiomist (talk) 17:48, 21 October 2010 (CDT)

(edit conflict) I'm afraid not... at least not now. And I agree with your idea for that infobox. I'm not too good with coding, but I can custom copy (term I coined, where I copy a template and customize/change it a bit).

Also, I did more reading:

• On Sig Images - I'm most neutral; I don't have much of a problem preventing them.
• Articles - What about articles here that are stubs? Do we delete the one here and import the longer one from Kirby Wikia?
• Conflict with Kirbypedia - EmptyStar is from that encyclopedia and cleared up the problem with the copying of information a while back.
• Main Page - I agree there. A you guys are OK with a weekly or monthly poll being there?
• Images - Here's where I have the slight problem: I don't know how to make .png images, and a good percentage of my edits at Kirby Wikia are the site's files, which are mostly .jpgs. If something needs to be downloaded for me to make PNGs, I won't be able to do it at all, as my computer has problems and can't open anything other than my documents, internet browsers, and stuff like Word, Powerpoint, etc. If I were to import the images you guys don't have in JPG form, would one of you be able to upload new versions of them in PNG form?
• Galleries - What we did at Kirby Wikia was place official artwork in the gallery and use screenshots spread across the article's sections. For example, a section of Meta Knight's article telling about his appearance in the anime will have a screenshot of him from the anime.
• Policies - Policies here are worded better than the ones we have at Kirby Wikia; I haven't taken a look at all of them yet, but if you guys don't have a policy on talk pages or "what WiKirby is NOT", I'd like for those to be adopted. BNK ^[E|T|C] 18:00, 21 October 2010 (CDT)

I can convert images to PNGs with transparency. As for galleries, I think they should be limited to images that can't "fit" into the article body anymore without its becoming cluttered. If there's artwork or something else of a particular appearance of the subject readily available, it makes sense to me for it to be in the respective section unless it's already overflowing with images. A lot of the Kirby Wikia articles seem to view galleries as a requirement and purposely miss out on chances of inserting the images into the article only so a gallery can be made, which doesn't make much sense.--Vellidragon 18:25, 21 October 2010 (CDT)

Screenshots are ok in jpg, unless you do anything to the image, in which it might start getting blurry. For instance, if you save it, then crop it, you could make it look a little messier. It's pretty easy to do in MSN Paint if you can't install GIMP. When you paste an image to a blank page, hit "Save As" and add the ext to the file name "Whatever.png" then click save/save as. If something like an official art pic is on Wikia in jpg, it might be easier to go back to the source and open the image to the highest resolution, right click it, and copy it(not save it). Paste it to your image editor (MSN Paint, Photoshop,Gimp, etc) make the necessary cropping, then save as .png, then upload, and I'm thinking to delete that "Image Requests" thing for a simpler system of tagging images needing transparency, cropping, higher quality uploads etc, which means add a template that categorizes the image as needing additional work. Polls? I'd have to find an extension to do it, and customize the entire look of it. It's an interesting idea, and I haven't refrained from experimenting yet :p But it sure is ugly... Axiomist (talk) 20:42, 21 October 2010 (CDT)

I have GIMP, I'm just confused as to how it works. The problem with getting images from their source again is that some of the sources for images are no longer available (ex.: Gamehiker), and back then stating where the image is from by providing the URL wasn't very common, so tracing back would be difficult. I'm free today, tomorrow, and Sunday, by the way, unless you guys prefer to have a certain time on a day off when everybody is here. BNK ^[E|T|C] 16:37, 22 October 2010 (CDT)

Suggestion: TinEye. - J 14:23, 6 November 2010 (CDT)

I only have basic GIMP knowledge, I'm sure Vellidragon knows much more than I do, judging by her number of clean uploads. I won't be here this weekend. I gotta work near Arkansas, which is out of town for me :p 2-3 absence expected, but feel free to leave messages here, I'll get to them eventually and Adam and Vellidragon could host the discussions. They're pretty much the only other active staff here. Axiomist (talk) 20:01, 22 October 2010 (CDT)

Le's do this. BNK ^[E|T|C] 14:26, 23 October 2010 (CDT)

I'm back sooner than we thought. :) How are we going to know when Kirby Wikia's people are onboard? Axiomist (talk) 12:58, 24 October 2010 (CDT)

I talked with them on the IRC; they approve of the merge. If they don't already, I'll encourage them to make accounts. BNK ^[E|T|C] 13:51, 24 October 2010 (CDT)

Hey, sorry guys. We're calling off the merge. We're going to move to MediaWiki on an independent domain instead. But still, good luck still being a separate wiki.--Starman125 19:15, 7 November 2010 (CST)

Alrighty, I deranked Gamefreak75, and will delete anything that was pasted/imported over as I find it. Much of it was left unpatrolled in case this happened. So it should be done by the end of the week.Axiomist (talk) 19:40, 7 November 2010 (CST)