Talk:The Skull Gang

Split

I've mentioned this before on Discord, but only now decided to officially kick off this discussion. Personally, I find Terrifying Fiend unfitting to just be a quick mention in this page. For starters, it's a final boss theme, and for that alone I feel it deserves a page. For me this is like if we covered Last Boss / Second Form from Amazing Mirror in Deep Sea Area of the same game, just because the two songs happen to share melodies. Sure, of course Terrifying Fiend being a partial remix of The Skull Gang actually makes sense since Necrodeus leads them, but even so. And secondly, currently the song feels weird in this page. The other two songs from Mass Attack covered here are not only more obvious and simpler remixes of the song, and they are all way less important than not only The Skull Gang itself, but also Terrifying Fiend. So Terrifying Fiend also being here and quickly mentioned like those other songs just feels unfitting. And lastly, since Terrifying Fiend is a partial remix, and not a simple remix, it has unique stuff to be talked about for its composition, so in a page for it, it wouldn't be a repeat of The Skull Gang for its composition section.

So, what do you all think? - Gigi (talk • edits) 18:06, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Like I said when the conversation first arose (plus new comments): in the case of "Last Boss / Second Form", the Olive Ocean melody is only the middle section, while the rest has a distinct melody as is, AND both were remixed. Meanwhile what "Terrifying Fiend" adds is comparable to the changes between "Grape Gardens" and "Dreaming of Clouds": an intro, and maybe extended outro. At its core, the intro is heavily based on the main part, in both cases. Meanwhile something like "Sword of the Surviving Guardian" (under My Friend and the Sunset), which not only has a new variation on the melody but also elements from different tracks, is confined to its root melody's page. If the argument that it is "de facto still Meta Knight's motif" stands, then I don't see why something that is "de facto the Skulls' motif" should be split off. ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 04:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Well, currently we plan to create VS. The Wicked Company apart from The Noble Haltmann, which is much more of a "vanilla" remix than the ones mentioned here (and I agree it deserves a separate page). Point is, we don't have a set rule, I am just arguing a final boss theme deserves much more. - Gigi (talk • edits) 19:01, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Also, I just looked at the Forgotten Land section of My Friend and the Sunset and... dang, that's mouthful (pun intended). I need to shorten that. Anyway, honestly, I would need to listen to it again, because I remember it just being My Friend and the Sunset. - Gigi (talk • edits) 19:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Just went to listen to Sword of the Surviving Guardian again, and all I hear is the main motif of My Friend and the Sunset over and over again. I don't see how it's supposed to be more distant from My Friend and the Sunset than Terrifying Fiend is to The Skull Gang. - Gigi (talk • edits) 19:12, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

There are significant changes in the motif at the beginning, even though it is essentially the same motif. And it's a similar story for "Terrifying Fiend", the intro is based on a modified version of "The Skull Gang"'s motif. And I will once again bring up "Dreaming of Clouds", which has a (shorter) intro which is a variation on the melody. That one by no means should be split, but (the only reason I'm bringing it up is that both "Sword of the Surviving Guardian" and "Dreaming of Clouds" have audio files beginning from the unmodified motifs, which isn't the case for this page but either scenario can be fixed). ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 07:46, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm in general agreement that Terrifying Fiend should have its own page. It's different enough from the main theme, and we do that for other songs that use leitmotifs from more widespread themes already. --Samwell (talk) 18:38, 26 December 2023 (UTC)