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WiKirby:Proposals

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Revision as of 21:45, 14 May 2021 by GameDoor64 (talk | contribs)
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Your opinions matter!

Welcome to the Proposals page. Here, WiKirby's editors may propose changes to the way the wiki operates, including how to handle certain categories of content, quality standards, or even just making aesthetic suggestions. Any user who has Autopatrol status or above may make a proposal or vote on one, and after two weeks of voting, if it passes, it will be incorporated into policy. Please see below for the specifics on how to make and/or vote on a proposal.

How to make a proposal

Please use one of the following templates to make a new proposal:

Single vote: This is for proposals which only propose a single change to the wiki. 

==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)==
(insert details of proposal here and sign with ~~~~)
{{Support}}
{{Oppose}}
{{Neutral}}

===Discussion===

{{clear}}

Multi-option vote: This is for proposals which include many possible changes to a particular element of policy. One option should always be to keep things as they were. It is recommended that no more than 8 options are given in a single proposal, including the "no change" option. 

==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)==
(insert details of proposal here and sign with ~~~~)
{{Option|1|(option title 1)}}
{{Option|2|(option title 2)}}
{{Option|3|(option title 3)}}
{{Option|etc.|(option title etc.)}}
{{Neutral}}

===Discussion===

{{clear}}

Multi-facet vote: This is for proposals which want to make several smaller changes to a single element of policy (for instance, making several changes to how the main page looks). Each change needs to be voted up or down individually. There should not be more than 5 parts to a proposal like this. This type of proposal should not be made without approval from wiki administration. 

==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)==
(insert summary of proposal here and sign with ~~~~)
===Change 1===
(insert details here)
{{Support}}
{{Oppose}}
{{Neutral}}
====Change 1 discussion====

===Change 2===
(insert details here)
{{Support}}
{{Oppose}}
{{Neutral}}
====Change 2 discussion====

===Change 3===
(insert details here)
{{Support}}
{{Oppose}}
{{Neutral}}
====Change 3 discussion====

etc.

{{clear}}

Once a proposal is made, the voting period begins (see voting regulations below). Voting period for a proposal ends two weeks after it starts, at 23:59:59 UTC on the 14th full day of voting. An administrator can veto a proposal at any time, although such action should always be justifiable and agreed upon by multiple admins. Administrators should not use this right to add more weight to their own opinions.

Restrictions

Users may propose many different changes or additions to the wiki. The following things, however, may not be voted on:

  1. Proposals which target specific users (such as bestowing or removing ranks or rights).
  2. Proposals which violate the law, as specified in the general content policy.
  3. Proposals which seek to overturn a recently (within the last 8 weeks (or 56 days)) approved proposal.
  4. Re-submitted proposals which were recently (within the last 8 weeks (or 56 days)) rejected, and which have not been significantly altered.
Voting regulations
  1. Proposal adding and voting is open only to registered users who have attained Autopatrol status and above. Users who do not have Autopatrol+ may still participate in discussions.
  2. Users who are currently blocked will not be allowed to vote, and any outstanding votes they have on proposals will be removed. Any proposal made by a user who is blocked during the consideration period will also be removed.
  3. All votes must be signed with signatures (type four tildes (~~~~.)) Unsigned votes are automatically negated, regardless of any points made.
  4. After two (2) weeks of voting, a proposal will be immediately enacted if the number of supportive votes is greater than the number of opposing votes, or, in the case of multi-option votes, any option receives a plurality consisting of three or more votes. In the event of a tie, the proposal may be re-voted upon with a one week duration, or annulled by the administrators.
  5. In the event a proposal has seven (7) unanimous support votes OR ten (10) support votes and no more than two neutral votes, as well as the support of a bureaucrat, a proposal may pass in only one (1) week instead of two.
  6. If a supported proposal is vetoed by the administrators, it is considered failed and should not be started again for at least 8 weeks (56 days).
  7. If a proposal fails to garner three (3) supporting votes (or 3 votes on any one option in multi-option proposals), it will not be considered.
  8. The original proposal maker may not vote on their own proposal if it only contains two options (i.e., "yes" or "no" proposals). However, proposers may vote on their own proposals if they have three or more options.
  9. All votes must be supported by a substantial reason from the voter. Simple and/or unproductive comments like "I agree" or "No that's stupid" will result in the vote being removed.
  10. The original proposer may cancel the proposal for any reason during the first three (3) days of its run, and it will not be considered failed. Admins may veto subsequent proposals if this is abused.
  11. Voting users may change their vote at any time before a proposal's deadline passes, but should update their timestamp if doing so.
  12. Discussion must remain civil at all times! Any uncivil discussion will result in the offending users' votes being negated, and possibly lead to strikes or a block.
  13. Excessive campaigning for any proposals will result in the campaigner's vote(s) being negated, or proposal being removed if applicable.
  14. Proposals about minor article manipulation (such as splits, merges, renames, or deletions) should not be created, unless the scope of the discussion is particularly large; otherwise, these should be handled on a case-by-case basis, through discussions or polls on the talk page of the article in question.
  15. It is recommended that a single user make only one (1) proposal at a time. Though simultaneous proposals from the same user are allowed, they are discouraged; this should ideally only be done if multiple issues are in question, and not many proposals are already active.
  16. For multi-option votes, voters are encouraged (but not required) to indicate a first, second, third, etc. vote. The exception to this is neutral votes, which must be the only vote if chosen.

Current Proposals

Tweak various policies regarding files (May 14th, 2021 - May 27th, 2021)

Something I've noticed every since I started editing here on WiKirby was how we had no written guidelines about various things about files. We have policies like WiKirby:Image standards, WiKirby:Audio standards, WiKirby:File use policy, which are all great, but they don't cover everything about files. In fact, we have various unwritten rules already been enforced here that aren't written anywhere. I'm going to list all these and propose what to change to make them clearer.

No file redirects

It is written nowhere in the pages Help:Redirects and WiKirby:Deletion policy that file redirects aren't allowed, and should be removed from pages and marked for deletion. It is not mentioned either in WiKirby:File use policy. Help:Moving pages is focused on pages, it encourages users to leave redirects, which could lead new users into thinking the same applies to files. In short, it's not mentioned anywhere.

My idea is to mention in Help:Redirects that file redirects should not exist under any circumstance. WiKirby:Deletion policy should list file redirects as candidates for deletion. Help:Moving pages should have a section explaining that an editor not on Autopatrol+ should, after moving a file, change all uses of the file to the new name and mark the file redirect for deletion. Users on Autopatrol+ should move files without leaving a redirect.

Cropping transparent images and optimizing files

These two trends, mainly optimizing files, started with WiKirby:Project Clean-Up. I see them as productive, and I would like to have them listed as recommendations in some policy pages. I don't believe we need to enforce them formally, but saying that it is preferred to do so would be nice.

Cropping transparent images basically means removing empty space from them. Many times files from official sites are transparent, but they have lots of empty space. The extra space makes the image appear smaller on the wiki, since it's accounting for all that empty space. My idea is to add a small note on WiKirby:Image standards to do that with any transparent image.

Optimizing files means running them through some image optimizer program to make them as small in file size as possible without losing quality. I would like to mention it also in WiKirby:Image standards, with a note that it's optional, and an editor looking into optimize images needs to do it loselessly.

File naming guidelines

WiKirby:Naming policy right now only lists guidelines for naming pages, which makes sense. WiKirby:Image standards#Other image procedures and details has a general "give a good name to the file, or it will be moved or deleted". However I believe we need at least some basic rules so that we can consider a name file good enough, without small disagreements on if it could have a better name. Ever since WiKirby:Project Clean-Up started, different users have inforced different rules for naming. At core they all have the same principles, and so I'm going to list those here. My idea isn't to make very specific guidelines like the regular naming policy, but I believe we still need some small guidance. The basic rules I propose are:

  • The file name must have the subject (eg. Kirby), the game or media it's from (eg. KSSU), and if it's an image the type of image (eg. Artwork). Order doesn't matter. So "Kirby KSSU Artwork", "KSSU Kirby Artwork", "KSSU Artwork Kirby" and "Kirby Artwork KSSU" are all acceptable;
    • However, the beginning of the file name should give enough information about the file itself. In other words, the subject must be in the beginning of the file name if it's very long (this is specifically to prevent issues such as this whole category page being impossible to navigate);
    • The game should use the abbreviation from WiKirby:Abbreviations.
  • Proper nouns in the file name should be capitalized, other words are up to the file uploader;
  • No restrictions about using special characters, as long as the file name is readable, with the exception of periods, that should be avoided to not mess up with the definition of the file type. So no file names with Japanese characters, but characters such as ' and & are acceptable for example.

And as the final guideline:

  • Files should not be moved unless it's to fix an issue with these guidelines.

That way we don't have "move wars". With the example I used, if there is a file named "Kirby KSSU Artwork" it's acceptable. It shouldn't be moved to "KSSU Kirby artwork". This is equivalent to editing a page and changing certain words but still keeping the same meaning, which isn't productive at all.

All that should then be listed in WiKirby:Naming policy, and WiKirby:Image standards and WiKirby:Audio standards should list them and link back to the naming policy. Help:Moving pages should mention files and explain when they should and shouldn't be moved.


What do you all think? - Gigi (talk • edits) 20:17, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Support
Oppose
Neutral

Discussion

I fully agree with points one and two.

Point 1: File redirects are not necessary, and only take up space. As the proposal states, they only exist to help new users not accidentally move a file and break many pages. Adding a note in the policy stating that file redirects are discouraged will not only let new users know, but also remind them to properly change the links on images they moved.

Point 2: Both optimizing and cropping are two helpful tactics to reduce file space and size, especially when loaded on pages. It is a very good idea to encourage these. (It should be noted that it actually increases the total space used up as MediaWiki keeps all versions of a file unless they are specifically deleted, and even then the file exists only visible to admins+.)

Point 3: The third point is one where I partially disagree. I do agree that all filenames should contain the subject, WiKirby game abbreviation, and image type unless not needed. The parts I don't completely agree with are that the order does not matter, non-proper noun capitalization is up to the uploader, and files should not be moved unless necessary.

Subpoint 1: I think that the order of the words of the filename can be important in situations where multiple files exist, all with the same name but different order. I have moved many files and seen many situations where "KSSU Kirby Artwork", "KSSU Kirby artwork", and "Kirby Artwork KSSU" all exist as an example. This is why I personally always put the game abbreviation at the beginning, so when I scan through the image category, all of the similar files are grouped together. In regards to the Commemorative Illustration category, it is a very rare occurrence. In it's case the subject should go at the beginning of the name because of how long "Twitter Commemorative Illustration" is. For nearly every other category, the game abbreviation is 2-5 characters long, and does not take up a lot of space (KA, KSS, KRtDL, KPR, KF2), and the image type (sprite, artwork, screenshot) is at the end of the filename usually. Putting the game abbreviation is my personal preference, because if every image starts with the abbreviation, none of them do in regards to alphabetical order.

Subpoint 2: Proper nouns should always be capitalized in filenames, but other words probably shouldn't. I'm not sure if it should be a rule, but it should be suggested that words such as "concept artwork", "screenshot", "and", and "scene" don't really have to be capitalized. (They nearly always aren't right now.) I would ask that we suggest uploaders to not put any words in FULL CAPS that aren't supposed to be, as this is not useful and kind of annoying.

Subpoint 3: Special characters can be allowed in filenames, with the exception of non-readable characters (Japanese, Arabic, Russian) and periods (which can mess with the filetype). We should probably also ban emojis from filenames although nobody has attempted uploading emoji names yet as far as I know. While special characters are allowed, they should only exist if they are part of the name, such as allowing "KSSU Daroach's Airship screenshot.png", but not allow adding extra characters that don't need to be there. In general, there shouldn't be extra words/characters added to filenames. ("KA Kirby sprite.png" vs "Awesome Kirby picture (Adventure) image ~ sprite.png")

Subpoint 4: I think that files should be moved to match with similar files. If there are a lot of files like "KSS Stone artwork.png", than if one file is "Spark Artwork KSS.png" it should be changed to fit in with the rest. It doesn't need to be required or top-priority that filenames be similar to others in their group, but it shouldn't be a bad thing to make one file fit in with the rest. --kirb 20:37, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

For reference, I don't want to make extremely strict rules to naming files. Most of your counterarguments seem to favor that.
Subpoint 1: I will be honest, I fail to see the point you're making here. Can you explain better?
Subpoint 2: Again, it doesn't really matter if they aren't capitalized or not unless it's proper nouns. Moving a file just to change that isn't necessary. If you think it is, could you please elaborate?
Subpoint 3: Fair enough. That is what I was going with that.
Subpoint 4: The issue with this is where you draw the line. What are "similar files"? How do we define that? Do all artwork files need to follow the same pattern? Or just files from a certain game? Or just copy ability files? It starts to become extremely arbitrary.
Again, I just want a simple set of guidelines just to make sure people aren't naming a file like "poppy bros. jr. kssu.png". I really don't want us to make very specific guidelines to files because they are mostly hidden to editors. And I keep seeing unnecessary edits to files that I would really rather see stop. That is all. - Gigi (talk • edits) 20:47, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
I agree that it can be difficult to determine what makes files "similar", but I mainly didn't want to be prohibited from moving a few files to match with closely-related files. I think all files in a "set" should follow the same format. A "set" being very specific, such as all copy ability sprites from a certain game, or every screenshot from a certain stage. Most images are not like this, but many are. If all of the Super Star Copy Ability sprites follow a format except one, I would want to rename that one. I can however see that many of the moves I have done were not necessary, and I will try not to move files that already have acceptable names. --kirb 21:05, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
The issue happens when someone else considers a "set" different from someone else, or really when different "sets" are used on pages of the same subject. An example: ability icons are usually grouped together in galleries, but some copy ability pages don't do that and icons are between various kinds of files. Compare for example Beam#Gallery and Archer#Gallery, they are very different. Again, it is really arbitrary, and if we made rules for each case we would be here all day making rules and, frankly, we're a wiki about Kirby. We don't need a million rules. Which is again why I think we should have some basic ones and leave the rest for the uploader. - Gigi (talk • edits) 21:27, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

I do agree on the first proposal that file redirects shouldn't be allowed and that we should optimize images. I however don't agree on the third proposal. I have renamed over 100 files just to name them like this: KSSU Plasma Wisp artwork. I believe that we should name files like what I mentioned before. - GameDoor64 (talk) (edits) 21:00, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Your personal guidelines are basically the same as mine. I'm confused as to what you go against my proposed guidelines for files. Care to elaborate? - Gigi (talk • edits) 21:27, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
I just believe that we should have the files named in a certain way for organization. I can see the reason that you're behind with having the files named in any order of abbreviation, subject, type of image. But it'll make finding images easier provided we don't have file redirects. - GameDoor64 (talk) (edits)

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