Talk:Green Greens (theme)

Splits

The first split is about the audio files in the infobox. As I said in the notice, its cluttersome and takes some time to load, so my solution would be to create a gallery page (which I named here "auditory", although NVS brought to my attention that galleries also include audio files now), with the original KDL Green Greens being left here.

The second split is about "Crystal Area", a remix of Green Greens from Kirby Super Star which received a few remixes (making them remixes of a remix), and is treated separately by HAL (e.g. 25th Anniversary Concert), and thus I believe it has an identity on its own and should be split, like Rest Area or Fountain of Dreams Superbound (talk) 17:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

1.Ehh...I dunno about that first split. I get that this page has a lot of music tracks, but there are also a few other pages that have many tracks like this one. Only keeping the original theme in the navbox and everything else in a gallery for this page only would seem odd to readers due to inconsistency...

2. Since this track seems to be a certain variation of a theme (and has multiple remixes), I also agree with this one being split. If "Rest Area" and "Fountain of Dreams" got their own separate pages, this theme should get one too. --Paistrie (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

To help me and others: "Crystal Area" was in KSS ("Crystal Area"), SSBM* ("Green Greens"), KAR* ("Green Greens"), KSSU ("Crystal Area"), KTD ("Green Greens", World Map), SSB4 ("The Great Cave Offensive"), KatRC ("Deploy the Kirby Tank!"), Smashing Live*, Kirby 25th Concert ("Kirby Super Star Medley"). The ones with * I actually don't know if that Smash arrangement is based on it. Also, did I miss anything? Anyway, going to post my opinion on both better soon, just wanted to see how it would be split for "Crystal Area". - Gigi (talk • edits) 18:25, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Completely confused by the indentations here but anyway. Ideally I was considering a revamp in the style of Kirby's Triumphant Return, with collapsible tables that should help against clutter, but I don't know if loading time will be affected. The revamp hasn't been done because the scope of it is to be determined (what to leave in the infobox). Support split of "Crystal Area", I suppose, but also, I would like to see "Re: Green Greens" get split off. Maybe if they get their own pages then we can limit ourselves to including the samples under the collapsible tables and just that... ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 06:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Support splitting Crystal Area off. As for what would be left in the infobox, I think that doing the collapsible tables like KTR would work, although I'm also not sure what should stay in the infobox. KTR seems to just have the original, the one from the remake of the original game, and a few seemingly arbitrary cases of the leitmotif, keeping the infobox here to around 5 games seems reasonable (maybe a few more since the KA/KNiDL retro stage exists), and there should probably be at least a couple examples that are the motif in another track opposed to a full remix. ---PinkYoshiFan 03:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

KTR is not (entirely) arbitrary. The selected samples are the ones that acknowledge KTR as a standalone theme as opposed to a motif. The Smash example specifically references the track playing after Marx's defeat, KMA has an arrangement of just KTR and something supplementary plus a track where KTR comes first as opposed to after "Green Greens"; the same is true for KF2. Of course, it can still be trimmed down further. For all pages except for KTR, it may make more sense to only include direct, orthodox and full remixes/arrangements in the infobox. That would leave out things like Brawl, KMA, KPR (assuming Re: Green Greens is split off), KBR, potentially Clash, maybe even KSA. It depends on qhat we consider orthodox though... ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 06:51, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I am in favor of splitting off "Crystal Area", but not in favor of an "auditory" for this page, or to remove all songs from the infobox like KTR mostly does for the sole reason that Green Greens is not always used as a leitmotif, while KTR is almost always used. Sure, if we wanted to do similar for Green Greens usages that are of leitmotifs (like it in Bring on the Super Ability, CROWNED, Revenge of the Enemy, VS. Star Dream) then I don't mind, as that would be in par with KTR. - Gigi (talk • edits) 20:43, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Current songs in the infobox that have Green Greens as a leitmotif (and that could be removed from the infobox): "Milky Way Wishes - Staff Credits", "Bring On the Super Ability", "C-R-O-W-N-E-D", "Revenge of the Enemy", "The World to Win", "Battle with Claycia", "Metal N. Vasion" (maybe?), "VS. Star Dream", "Suite: The Star Conquering Traveler - Fourth Movement: Hope of Birth", "Suite: The Star Conquering Traveler - Final Movement: Sparkling Star". The others are either just remixes of Green Greens, or medleys with Green Greens in it. - Gigi (talk • edits) 20:48, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Would also make sense to leave out any samples that can appear in other pages, which could become the case with the upcoming split. ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 06:44, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

A draft of the page was created here. There is still the discussion of what arrangements fall under it, so I feel we should discuss that too. Once that page is moved to mainspace, we need to remove coverage from this page and add links to it in other pages. - Gigi (talk • edits) 21:32, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Here to help by setting the definitions: a must-have to qualify is the C-G (tonic-dominant/i-v) bassline, and the specific intro element between the two phrases of the first part. Structure-wise, with the intro being I: I-A1-I-A2-I-B-I-A1-I-A2-I-B-Peanut Plains-KTR1-KTR2-loop. Most likely optional: heavy brass and percussion. Will go through the list comparing to these elements. ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 08:22, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

My apologies for making the Crystal Area page too early, Gigi. I'm not saying all the Green Greens arrangements should have their own pages, but I think the more prominent arrangements that is used in different games like Re: Green Greens and the page I made yesterday, Crystal Area should be considered. Trust me, I've had a listen to these songs myself; the melodies in those songs sound either partial or altered to an extent. I'll just be respectful and let you guys reconsider. -User:Jude da Dude 14:06, 8 February 2024

I double checked the article and all its audio files. Besides the fact that a duplicate was uploaded recently (File:K25 Kirby Super Star Medley (Green Greens).oga as the original and later File:K25AOC Crystal Area.mp3 with a more favourable filename), there are no issues with the move. The draft is in good shape, though perhaps a more elaborate composition section would be beneficial. I trust that Jude has the expertise necessary to add that, but am willing to work on it, if anything :) So the only question remaining is: "is anyone opposed" (which so far has been a no) ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 17:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Bump. So far it seems like we're in favour of splitting Crystal Area and not splitting to auditory, but the page will need to be reworked to avoid clutter. I'll take on that task if this verdict is final. However maybe someone hasn't shared their opinions or changed their mind? ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 07:12, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Fresh mindset from later and with some progress on the revamp, we're running into the issue of the page having way too many audio files, regardless of where we put them. RHV suggested that we could instead split "Green Greens" into direct arrangments of the track and the leitmotif. It can be done with qualifiers or as a subpage. With this format all the base GGs and the samples of first appearances as partial arrangements and medleys (where GG is treated as a standalone theme) can go under the existing page. The things that this page claims will always be "not exhaustive" (i.e. motifs) would be separate, with a format tbd. I like this idea because unlike other options, it splits the load evenly instead of having one page with part and the other with all, or just one page with all. It also means that we can prioritize one type of content under each page, thus avoiding clutter and confusion. Thoughts? ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 04:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Re: Green Greens split

It's no surprise that this page is large enough to warrant several splits. While some suggestions are in the thread above, I'm starting a dedicated section in order to propose a split of "Re: Green Greens".

It appears in KPR File:KPR Re Green Greens sample.oga, KSA (as "Green Gardens" File:Green Gardens KSA.mp3), KF2 ("Green Gardens" from KSA, "Green Gardens (Secret Song)" File:Green Gardens KF2.mp3), and Kirby Café ("Fresh Green Café Terrace" File:Kirby Cafe Green Greens.oga). That's four unique audio tracks, and the theme is distinct enough to be easily discernible (intro based on the second section, prolongued F in the melody, and a KTR-like part instead of the usual second section of the regular "Green Greens", which comes after the first section repeat).

That all being said, what do you think? Should "Re: Green Greens" be split off? ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 21:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm all for it. Not only is Re: justifiably distinct, it also would help with the main "Green Greens" page being so massively unwieldy that it never loads right on my computer or phone. Neither of them are exactly high-end and one of them should have been put out of its misery years ago, but still. The rhythmic differences and the completely different second section should be enough to justify this as at least a distinction akin to "Crystal Area". ~ by Waddlez! 01:22, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm a bit neutral on this one, with me thinking yes due to how massive Green Greens is, but with a dunno on how Re: Green Greens doesn't sound too different from base Green Greens. I know it changes up the melody a bit, but could any actual music people explain? Also the Kirby Café remix says it's just a remix of Green Greens so not sure if HAL considers it a separate song (the names of the The Sound of Kirby Café tracks end with the name of the songs featured), although I guess you can say they did similar with Café De Planet saying it's The Noble Haltmann but it clearly has parts based on Venturing into the Mechanized World and Flight of Azure. In short, I dunno. - Gigi (talk • edits) 01:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

There could be multiple reasons for it being referred to as "Green Greens", but it does boil down to "Re: Green Greens" being a reimagined "Green Greens". I described the differences above, but in short: it has an intro based on the second section, in the first section the F is dragged out twice (rhythmical difference which is the biggest flag of this arrangement), and then is followed by the GG section of KTR. It's distinguishable from other versions of "Green Greens", including from ones which also drag out one of the notes (in that here it's done twice), ones with a similar intro, and ones with KTR. The split is mainly just to avoid clutter though. Based on the revamp I'm working on, only the original KPR one would be mentioned on this page while the rest would be relegated to the split "Re: Green Greens", so if that's a format everyone's okay with then there's reason enough to split. (That includes not mentioning the Café one here, but that can be adjusted if needed.) ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 04:23, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Bump ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 04:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)